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Tony Grist

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Two- No Three- Things I Want To Say About Lockerbie [Sep. 2nd, 2009|09:28 am]
Tony Grist
I broke my fast and looked at The Times on line yesterday. I didn't read much- honestly- because- equally honestly- it was making me feel ill. What especially made me feel ill was an article by someone I'd never heard of saying the Megrahi case had finally killed off the so-called "special relationship" between Britain and the USA- and berating the British government for letting this happen.  I haven't bored you with my views on that issue yet- and I'm not going to do it now except to say two things, very briefly. The first is that Lockerbie has been soused in ugly, disgusting politics since the beginning- and I think it very likely that Megrahi is innocent. The second is that I think it's rather splendid that tiny, little Scotland was prepared to stand up and defy the might of the USA- for whatever reason. Oh, and there's a third- and it's this: that for a nation that's always banging on about how Christian it is, the USA doesn't half have a legalistic, Old Testament attitude to justice! 

[User Picture]From: seraphimsigrist
2009-09-02 03:04 pm (UTC)

new testament

secondly... the indication here is that
the New Testament ethic amounts to 'stick
it to the Americans' or at least that this is
a major component. Long time since seminary
but I am not sure of that?

well if his guilt is stipulated(I am not sure
the counter claims are more serious than those
of every man on murderers row writing to a woman
enammoured of the romance of it all...but in any
case let us stipulate it for the moment)
is the release of mass murderers into society when
their health looks bad after they have been in prison
several years a general principle one would think
the way of wisdom?
why put him in prison at all then etc?
the whole thing seems to me to stand only on a
basis of stick it to the americans.

but the oil behind the deal is what makes it odious
to me and ought perhaps to you who are not a big
capitalist in orientation as far as I know.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: daisytells
2009-09-02 03:42 pm (UTC)

Re: new testament

Yes, the oil deal is a consideration. If he was released on purely humanitarian grounds because of his illness, then hurrah! If, however, it took an oil deal to do it, then shame!
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[User Picture]From: seraphimsigrist
2009-09-02 03:48 pm (UTC)
well I had not been following it closely
but I was amazed a little at the letters released
which the British government says shows there was
no consideration of politics and economics in the
release and which only in the most literal reading
can hold that but seem to me to demonstrate precisely
the contrary ,that it was a deeply political decision
and if one is going to do that then perhaps they
ought to have destroyed the documentation or
rendered it inaccessible in some way...

governments get caught in the situation that simple
people who allow themselves complicated relationships
do...of saying one thing to one person and another
to another. doesnt work very well.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2009-09-02 03:51 pm (UTC)

Re: new testament

The Lockerbie business is very complicated.

I can't keep the details straight in my head, but there is good reason to believe that Megrahi's conviction was as much a "fix" as his release has been.

Megrahi was planning to appeal against his conviction. By releasing him as and when they did the Scots forestalled a court case that might have been embarrassing to all the governments involved.

Edited at 2009-09-02 03:52 pm (UTC)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: seraphimsigrist
2009-09-02 04:01 pm (UTC)
well I agree on much and perhaps most importantly
on scarcely being able to or even on wanting to
keep the details safe in my head.

my predisposition is to suppose that the innocence
argument is more than likely based on the sort
of revisionism which against all evidence tries to
find the world trade center brought down not
by airplanes but by internal explosion, which is
to say the work of people, anti american? or whatever?
or just paranoid theorists reacting viscerally?,
who want to muddy the waters etc
Let us agree, I think you will, that this is at
least possible although you will assign it a lower
probability than I. I would say about 90%

as to evidential limits and as it were finally
circumstantial evidence, this I would expect can
be involved...it may be a case resting finally on
something like probablities. when probablities are
high enough, as that the sun will come up tomorrow
morning, it is not wrong to base action on them...
or if they are less then etc

I am tiring you out.
myself too.

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2009-09-02 07:31 pm (UTC)
I never dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand- because I think those in power are capable of anything- but most of them turn out, on investigation, to be pretty screwy. This one is different- and supported by a lot of reputable people.

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[User Picture]From: seraphimsigrist
2009-09-02 07:35 pm (UTC)
well if the man is likely to be innocent
(and then who was it some OTHER Lybian
intelligence agent to whom he loaned his shirt?)
but I have not followed it closely enough and
there may be a good response... but if it were
so self evident that he is innocent and someone
else ,let it be no doubt an american yid employed
by the cia, then why was not the case reopened?

I dont know tony...but I will bet as we say dollars
to donuts that british petroleum is at the bottom
of this.
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