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Tony Grist

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Fandom [Aug. 4th, 2007|12:12 pm]
Tony Grist
Fandom- I don't get it.

Why would you want to mess with someone else's characters when you can create your own?

Does J.K. Rowling take pleasure in badly written stories about her characters having sex?  I doubt it.  Why- If you admire and enjoy her work - would you want to disrespect her so? 

Isn't "fan" a bit of a misnomer?

But lets move from the general to the specific. An artist just got banned by LJ because of an image she posted of Harry and Snape.

Only the banning seems ineffective because she's bounced back and the image is viewable. (I'm not giving links. I don't want to give her any more publicity than she's getting already).

I clicked. I was expecting an image of them kissing. Boy, was I in for a surprise.

The characters were clearly modelled on Daniel Radcliffe and Alan Rickman. Isn't this defamation of character or libel of something?

Even more to the point:  British comedian Chris Langham is about to go to prison for downloading images which (I assume ) are comparable to this. 

So- forget morality- LJ needs to guard itself against prosecution.

But I don't want to forget morality. You take characters from a beloved children's book and you produce an image of them that any paedophile would be proud to own (you can quibble over whether Harry looks underage or not if you want to be legalistic and miss the point) and  I can't think of any grounds on which I'd be prepared  to defend you.

A lot of fans are up in arms and banging on about censorship.  I just watched a video of a girl give a little self-righteous speech then attempt to burn her LJ shirt with a blow torch .  Fine. Off you trot to some less scrupulous site and good luck to you!  As it happens, I'm perfectly happy to see you go.

From: bleachedrainbow
2007-08-05 02:48 pm (UTC)

Re: SAY SO. Tell us this is not a fandom-friendly site, and we'll migrate.

Disingenuous. Harry is 29 in the postscript in the last novel in the series. The books are about kids, in school, being taught by adults. Therefore, there is a power differential. Most of the abusive fanfic exploits the power differential. Do I need to go further? Most of the fan fic is about kids, not adults. Most of the bad fan art is definitely about kids.

It is disingenuous to suggest that just because many of the characters are underage in the actual books that that "fan fic is about the kids, not the adults" or that "Most of the bad fan art is definitely about the kids". Please, show me your research and stats. In any case, THIS piece of fan art, bad or not, was not about kids.

The fact that you can even refer to a "fan fic test case" which somehow, in your view, should allow this particular brand of fandom a right to depict pedophilia proves the level of disconnection from reality that is going on here. [...]

You're trying to argue 6-Apart's rules to death as though they were law.

This is not my view. I am not trying to argue that. It it is not what wrote, nor is it to be found between the lines of what I wrote. Please do not put words into my mouth to suit your preconceived view of my view.

6A called it a 'test case', not me, and I mentioned it to show that regardless of what you, I, or anyone else, personally think, 6A have said that they recognize that the fact that many of the characters are underage in the book does not mean that they are underage in fan art and fan fic. And that so long as they are not underage in the fan fic and fan art there won't be a problem.

If they do not endorse it, then they condone it; there is little difference.

You haven't shown how it is that anyone in fandom is condoning it.

Society has a lot of erroneous perceptions that must be challenged, I'm not sure why its erroneous perceptions about fan art, fan fic, fan artists and fan authors shouldn't be challenged as much as everyone else's.

[[I think this is my third comment to this thread/post, which is my self-imposed limit when responding to controversial topics, so, although of course I'll read with interest (and possibly annoyance *G*) any response you might make, this is my last opportunity to say: thanks for taking the time to respond, your views have been of interest to me.]]
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[User Picture]From: happydog
2007-08-05 03:09 pm (UTC)

Re: SAY SO. Tell us this is not a fandom-friendly site, and we'll migrate.

Prove that HP fandom condones it? They do more than that, THEY WRITE IT.

Do research on fanfic? With stats? No. First of all, I would never want to submit myself to reading that much bad literature and looking at that much bad art. I tried to do research on furries once and got seriously nauseous, so exploring the world of Harry Potter pedophilia and analyzing it is somewhere below going to the dentist on my list.

Secondly, how is it that I would even have time to research and compile stats on such a thing? Apparently unlike many HP fans, I work for a living. I have enough to do in my life without trawling through a universe of extremely bad art.

Third: I am not interested in defending fandom. It's not my job to search out the "good stuff" if there is any, which I seriously doubt. If the HP fandom community doesn't want to be regarded as a group of pervs, they need to step up to the plate and self-censor, and not let their worst examples represent all of them.

I personally think that Harry Potter fandom has become an illness for some people, just the same way that J-pop and anime fetishism has become an illness.

If you don't see how a picture of sex between a man and a boy is pedophilic, then you are living on your own planet, and my radio waves don't reach that far.
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[User Picture]From: pantherrrrea
2007-08-05 05:17 pm (UTC)

Re: SAY SO. Tell us this is not a fandom-friendly site, and we'll migrate.

hat much bad literature and looking at that much bad art
I have found lot of fanfics that were better than the original be it slash, het or gen.

The next thing I don't understand is how can you judge a picture if you haven't seen it? I have, it wasn't really my thing, but and that is really big but the characters in this drawing were mature. There was nothing childish in there.

You judge people, you judge them beacause they like something you think is disgusting. That is your right. But then I have the right to look at homoerotic pictures of two mature characters be it HP/Snape or X/Y.

You don't need to defend fandom... I'd say that after reading what you have written in your comments nobody would want that.

I have read original *crap* books and there wasn't any censor so why should there be any in fandom? If a person doesn't like fanfics, then he or she shouldn't read them as nobody is blackmailing him/her to do so.
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[User Picture]From: happydog
2007-08-05 05:51 pm (UTC)

Re: SAY SO. Tell us this is not a fandom-friendly site, and we'll migrate.

The bottom line is: just because you like something, DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU OWN IT. The characters belong to Rowling, not you. Fandom shows its contempt for Rowling every time they do slash fiction, putting things in Rowling's universe that she never intended or thought of.

It shows profound contempt for art, profound contempt for artists and their creation, and a profound sense of entitlement. Bad enough that artists of all kinds, including writers, never get paid and most of them spend their lives toiling in semi-obscurity.

How would you feel if you wrote a book, it became a best seller, and then a bunch of creepy folks began writing long stories using your characters, turning them into rapists and mass murderers, and posting it all over the internet? What would you do? Would you blithely say "Oh, it's OK, must be better than what I wrote anyway," or would you react to protect your art that you worked hard to create?

It's contemptuous of the artist and it's crass. An artist does not create to suit YOUR needs or your kink. If you want to read gay erotica, be honest about it and read gay erotica. If you want to write it, write it. But don't vampire off someone else's hard work and twist their characters into what you want them to be when they're not. They don't belong to you. You have no say in their actions. You are not entitled. You are not an artist, and you are not a writer, and you are NOT ENTITLED TO STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S ART AND TWIST IT.
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[User Picture]From: pantherrrrea
2007-08-05 06:45 pm (UTC)

Re: SAY SO. Tell us this is not a fandom-friendly site, and we'll migrate.

The bottom line is: just because you like something, DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU OWN IT. The characters belong to Rowling, not you...NOT ENTITLED TO STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S ART AND TWIST IT.
Do I earn money with fanfiction or these pics?? No. Nor do I say that the characters are mine. Do I tell people that they shouldn't buy her books? No. No if somebody asks me who is my fav author I'll tell Rowling and tell them to buy her book.

How would you feel if you wrote a book... How would I feel? If the story is fantastic I'd be pleased that my work has inspired it, if terrible I'd be grossed out, but I wouldn't do anything, because you know what? Lets look at it from the view of money: Ok my book is best seller, but if it isn't a part of a series like HP, said book will be very soon forgotten. But say there is person A that has written a fanfic of said book and person B who has read it and loved it and maybe, there is this big maybe that person B will go buy said book.
Yes there would be like maybe 80% terrible ff's and there would be things that would squick me, but as I said I wouldn't do anything. If somebody tried to sell a fanfic biased on said book that would be something different, but I cannot tell people to stop writing just because I think their view is wrong and I've never intended it like that.

I read originals, I love them, when they are well written, and the same goes for ff. Plus I enjoy fanfiction because it lets me see a beloved world from other site. I don't read story because it's slash, het or gen, I read it when it's well written so I can enjoy it.

Plus I'll give you this to think: http://poliphilo.livejournal.com/423223.html?thread=5157175#t5157175

You are entitled to your view as I'm to mine and you may think you're right, but then again there are literally hundreds of people thinking the same ~ that they are right. It doesn't matter to me, right, wrong if it doesn't hurt people, if it doesn't kill, rape or abuse them then it doesn't really matter. At least to me. And the thing is that the truth is really, really subjective>>> now the truth is this, yesterday was it this and tomorrow it could be something completely different.
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