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Tony Grist

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Just Gimme Some Truth [Sep. 16th, 2006|11:37 am]
Tony Grist

Silly old Pope.

Silly old Muslims.

Of course Islam has a history or violence. I don't know the Koran, but either that text about spreading the faith with the sword is in there or it's not. If it's in there I don't know what the beef is about.

But then most Muslims are as ignorant of the Koran as most Christians are ignorant of the Bible.

And if the Koran is violent, so is the Bible. And not only the Old Testament.

"Don't imagine that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword! " Who said that? Not Mohammed, but Jesus.  Matthew 10. 34.

Neither Christianity nor Islam is a religion of peace. Check  the record. Religion is a divisive force. Especially when it's montheistic. 

OK, secular ideologies are equally divisive. People like killing one another. Full stop.

So the Pope shouldn't have said what he said.  It was undiplomatic of him. It was arrogant, divisive, unhelpful,  partisan-

But it wasn't untrue. 

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Comments:
[User Picture]From: jubal51394
2006-09-16 01:29 pm (UTC)

Here! Here!

Pity you're not the pope... or at least our President. ;)
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 04:25 pm (UTC)

Re: Here! Here!

I keep applying for the job, but they won't even give me an interview...
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[User Picture]From: jubal51394
2006-09-16 06:11 pm (UTC)

Re: Here! Here!

If we elect you as a write in candidate will you move and become a citizen? Wait! I think you have to do that first. How about it?
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 07:42 pm (UTC)

Re: Here! Here!

I was thinking of becoming Pope, actually. You don't need citizenship (of anywhere in particular) for that, but maybe there are one or two other requirements; I'll have to look into it.

As for the Presidency: don't you pretty much have to be a multi millionaire to run? Of course if someone placed the required amount in my bank account I might be prepared to take the matter further....
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From: beiderbecke
2006-09-16 03:07 pm (UTC)
all religions have a history of violence, but their texts are usually half and half. for instance, the koran teaches that it is illegal to hit a woman, "even with a flower."
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 04:05 pm (UTC)
I agree.

Wholeheartedly.

Religions simply reflect human nature- which is deeply, deeply conflicted.
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[User Picture]From: lblanchard
2006-09-16 06:02 pm (UTC)

Silly old press

I blame the media.

The conversation between Manuel II Paleologus and the unnamed Persian scholar was probably the only part of the entire address they understood.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/bavaria06/message9.htm

And speaking of "silly old": do we like the irony of "We are offended that the Pope has called Islam violent, so we're going to go firebomb a couple of Anglican and Orthodox churches"?

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 07:33 pm (UTC)

Re: Silly old press

I had already seen the full text of the address. I'm afraid I found it unreadable. Verrrry dry.

The press, I suppose, could have chosen not to report it, but that's their job, isn't it?

As for the firebombing of the churches, I don't suppose the jihadi on the street distinguishes one Christian sect from another.
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[User Picture]From: jackiejj
2006-09-16 08:19 pm (UTC)

Re: Silly old press

I noticed that irony, too, Laura.
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[User Picture]From: jackiejj
2006-09-16 08:18 pm (UTC)
I heard that two churches were firebombed today, and that later (perhaps not as a result) the Pope apologized for his statements.

Here we go again.

I find, wearily, that I am getting sick of "religion."
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 08:31 pm (UTC)
I find, wearily, that I am getting sick of "religion."

Me too.
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[User Picture]From: jackiejj
2006-09-16 08:35 pm (UTC)
Time Magazine (or Newsweek) for this week had a cover article, "Does God Want You to be Rich?" about how some megachurches (a new U.S. phenomenon featuring thousands in the congregation) are preaching that if you trust God you'll get lots of money.

The chasm between what Jesus supposedly said and meant and how it is being interpreted these days is disgusting. This isn't Christianity any longer--as the article pointed out, some of the preaching sounds like a sales meeting...
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 09:00 pm (UTC)
It's not Christianity as I understand it.

What about camels going through the eyes of needles?
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[User Picture]From: jackiejj
2006-09-16 09:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah, and the rich man who went away sad because he couldn't give up everything to follow Christ.

All that aside, it's the preachers who get the richest. Always.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-16 09:36 pm (UTC)
And the Pope- or the Church he represents- is the richest of them all.

Just imagine what those Michelangelos of his must be worth!
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[User Picture]From: lblanchard
2006-09-17 03:39 pm (UTC)
But they're not his. He's just their steward.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-17 04:17 pm (UTC)
Remember that movie where Anthony Quinn (a likely candidate) got elected Pope and proceeded to sell off the Church's assets?

I think there's something anomalous about a Christian leader sitting on such a treasure chest.

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[User Picture]From: lblanchard
2006-09-17 04:26 pm (UTC)
Actually, I don't remember the movie. And my comment was about 50% tongue-in-cheek. It's more than anomalous that a church should sit on great wealth. I'm conflicted about art treasures, though, particularly when the public has access to them.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-17 04:45 pm (UTC)
You're right, someone has to care for things like the Sistine Chapel.

And, by and large, religious works of art look better in churches than they do in museums.
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[User Picture]From: kaysho
2006-09-26 09:32 pm (UTC)
Helps us understand why the Romans were so opposed to the Christians as well ... because it's one thing to worship your own god, and quite another to say that everyone else's god is inherently wrong because it's not your One True God.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2006-09-26 09:47 pm (UTC)
Another thing with the Christians in the Roman empire is that they refused to participate in the cult of the Emperor. This made them appear politically subversive.
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