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Tony Grist

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A Bit Disjointed [Nov. 11th, 2016|10:20 am]
Tony Grist
I'm not saying it's a good thing- this victory of Trump's- but it's definitely a Thing.

It seems to have cost me a important friendship. But, no, lets not make this about me....

Brexit was a harbinger- and I expect other events to follow after. Like Marie Le Pen taking France.

I understand there are moves afoot to impeach Trump even before he takes office. Well, good luck wth that.

You impeach Trump and who do you get? Pence? Trump's more extreme,but less charismatic younger brother. Smart move.

When I say it's a Thing I mean what Carlyle would have called a world-historical event. The world soul turning in her sleep, making adjustments...

Think you can stop that by bringing in the lawyers?

This is the sort of Thing that only gets stopped by a war.

The feelings Trump has ridden to power on have been suppressed, stifled, tamped down.  He's the pimple through which they've found egress. There's a hell of a lot of pressure behind them.

Repressed feelings are bad for the individual, also bad for the body politic. Healthier to let them out.

In Freudian terms this is an eruption of the id. In Jungian terms it's an emergence of the shadow.

I know it's a stretch, but let's consider whether this sort of eruption may not be necessary.

A form of mental hygiene.

Better out than in.

And lets keep proportion. Trump isn't Hitler. The id of America in 2016 is less murderous than the id of Germany in the post-war years.

Nice picture this morning: Trump and Obama in the White House, going knee to knee. Where's there's talk there's hope.

Two choices really; there's talking and there's fighting. I expect there'll be a bit of both. Obviously talking is the better option.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: sorenr
2016-11-11 10:31 am (UTC)
I fear for many human rights in the US, but of course Trump isn't Hitler.

Hopefully healing and fighting back are not mutually exclusive. And fighting back must always start with trying to understand your opponent - which means talking and, more importantly, listening.

We all ought to listen more.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 11:12 am (UTC)
Rights have always had to be fought for. This is nothing new. A lot of rights have only recently been ceded in the States and I think they'll have to be fought for some more before they become inalienable.

Also, lets be honest with ourselves, we rather enjoy fighting.
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[User Picture]From: davesmusictank
2016-11-11 11:15 am (UTC)
True but listening can only go so far and then it is back to the fight and struggle.
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[User Picture]From: dadi
2016-11-11 12:18 pm (UTC)
I dont know about the murdering id, but in the whole world, the more primitive, ego-centric id has been on the rise, and people like Trump are like facilitators for that.
I have seen it happen in Italy with Berlusconi.. when he came to power, people in general got exponentially more rude, more corrupt, more certain that only their own wellness counted, more against any form of respect towards others. The country has suffered a downslide regarding mores which is difficult to understand for anybody who has not lived there from the 80ies to the middle of the 00s.

And that is what is happening about everywhere. As soon as somebody manages to distinguish him- or herself as a potential vehicle for that kind of "liberation" of the more primitive feelings, the general level of mutual respect and care simply goes out of the window.

It is true that there has been and is a level of discontent, but I'd compare that more to a compromised immune system than to an already existing pimple. The populist ogres sow then their poisonous seed into that system, and then the pimples grow. And not always they explode.. often they fester and make the whole system sick without ever working a liberating change. That is still so in Italy.. Berlusconi has gone but his work has made the country very, very sick without (in my opinion) any possibility of social or economical recovery.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 02:24 pm (UTC)
I think the parallel between Trump and Berlusconi is illuminating. Both came into politics late, bringing, so they claimed, business nous to the board.

I think a Trump presidency will be a rocky ride- especially for US citizens. I have hopes (hopes is all they are) that office will tame him.
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[User Picture]From: xiphias
2016-11-11 12:55 pm (UTC)
Why do you think Trump isn't Hitler?
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 02:20 pm (UTC)
Mainly because he isn't backed by a private army.

Also because Hitler had a political philosophy whereas Trump, I think, is making it up as he goes along.

Thirdly Hitler wanted to expand his country's borders by annexation and conquest while Trump seems to be an isolationist (and more interested in pulling up the drawbridge.)
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[User Picture]From: kamomil
2016-11-11 03:02 pm (UTC)
Interesting.

I do think Trump is dangerous. People now feel they are license to tell people in the street to "go home" if they are not white. When asked about the Trump protesters, he said "they're professional protesters" Maybe Trump is not like Hitler, but he is going to take the country back 60 years in time, to when people could be openly racist and discriminatory. And China is worried about his plans for trade with them. He's going to do a lot of damage to the country.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 03:18 pm (UTC)
The thing about Trump is we just don't know what he's going to do or say next. I understand he's now commending the protesters for their "passion". We saw it in the campaign. One moment he was saying he understood Putin and the next he was saying he knew nothing about him. The man's chaotic.

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 06:40 pm (UTC)
A moat full of alligators, snakes and piranhas? I don't think that's a serious suggestion. I think someone is poking fun at the far right.
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[User Picture]From: faunhaert
2016-11-11 03:16 pm (UTC)
actually the electoral college has not done its vote yet

they can change the election
they have precedence and done it before

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 03:19 pm (UTC)
Well, that would be interesting...

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[User Picture]From: faunhaert
2016-11-11 06:51 pm (UTC)

its crazy over here

There's got to be a way to deal with this
he's declaring unconstitutional things

from all the stuff going I don't think the queen would
want to deal with the Trumpeteers.
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[User Picture]From: howlin_wolf_66
2016-11-11 03:23 pm (UTC)
It has to keep going forward now it's been initiated, I agree.

Trump has been surprisingly conciliatory in the moments following the announcement, so one can only hope that that kind of spirit continues!

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 04:13 pm (UTC)
It would be good if it did.

I think he's improvising. I don't think he knows what he stands for or what he means to do. I think he'll serve up some surprises.
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[User Picture]From: howlin_wolf_66
2016-11-11 04:19 pm (UTC)
Yes.

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[User Picture]From: saimans
2016-11-11 06:09 pm (UTC)
A very dangerous game...

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 06:43 pm (UTC)
That's life though, isn't it? And no-one comes out of it alive.
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[User Picture]From: matrixmann
2016-11-11 07:07 pm (UTC)
The id of America in 2016 is less murderous than the id of Germany in the post-war years.

I wouldn't say that. Their battleground only is no whole continent at once, they're scattered all around the world and a lot of conquering shit gets done by so-called soft power methods. Plus, add the amount of time. Korea, Vietnam - it's all been a while ago and never since then America's been without a war.

Trump isn't Hitler.

This is correct and it is correct because of the following: If Trump is such a figure, his trick would look differently than Adolf's. If he tried to do the same trick like this famous Austrian back then, he wouldn't even win a flower pot. People can and must be turned into this direction by something out of their time. - And just as it is, the time when things happen, you never realize clearly you're just in this what later turns out to be one of the most perverted events that has ever happened in the history of mankind.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 07:21 pm (UTC)
Yes, it's so bloody difficult to get perspective on current events. If only we knew what was going to happen next!
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[User Picture]From: qatsi
2016-11-11 08:28 pm (UTC)
I suspect he's going to have a bit of a shock when it turns out it's not quite like The Apprentice. Probably all sorts of things he can't just do, the way a tyrannical CEO would.

I'm inclined to agree with your view that he will exhibit some randomness and may be less extreme than his campaign. Let's hope. But will the more rabid of his supporters be satisfied with that? It sounds as if a wave of hate crime has been set off in the US, rather like that here after the referendum.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-11 09:18 pm (UTC)
I wish he'd use the weight of the office that is going to be his to tell the haters to back down and stop daubing swastikas on walls and harrassing women in hijabs because it's really not cool. They might take it from him. He could do so much good right now if he set his mind to it.
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