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Tony Grist

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A Few More Unconnected Thoughts [Jun. 23rd, 2016|09:51 am]
Tony Grist
My over-riding feeling about the Referendum is resentment.

I'm not a Tory- so why am I being dragged into what is essentially a fight between two wings of the Tory party?

David Cameron or Boris Johnson? Neither, thank you.

Don't we elect a government to make these kind of decisions?

Three thunderstorms passed overhead last night- and lots of rain fell. We're warned to expect more of the same today. Yes, I believe in omens.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: ideealisme
2016-06-23 09:01 am (UTC)
All referenda are awful (cf. same sex marriage, 2015) but this one feels particularly cursed, with bad magic. I would nearly write a fantasy novel about it based on a battle between otherworldly powers like the Dark is Rising or something. Once a public rep lost her life, it became a lost cause.

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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-23 09:07 am (UTC)
I haven't said anything about Cox- because it's a sensitive subject and people are grieving- and it might not have anything to do with the Referendum- but it has deepened the sense that there's something really nasty going on.
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[User Picture]From: heleninwales
2016-06-23 10:32 am (UTC)
It may have started out as a fight between two wings of the Tory party, but the outcome will affect you. Perhaps not immediately, but it will have a big effect on your children and grandchildren in the years to come. If you want them to have the rights and protections that you have enjoyed, then vote to Remain.

The EU is NOT a Tory project. Both governments have been involved in negotiations over the years and in general the UK has been much better off being part of the larger economic area. We have already negotiated favourable deals, such as not being part of the Euro or the Schengen area. We already control our currency and our immigration. Leaving the EU leaves us as the mercy of the neo-liberal, laissez faire freemarketeers of the Tory party who know that if they can get rid of all the "red tape" like minimum wage, decent working conditions etc, they can increase their profits.

If you're not sure, think of it like a divorce. All divorces are messy and expensive and it won't be the Tory elite and their rich cronies who will suffer. Whether it's war or economic recession, it's always the weakest in society who bear the brunt.

Even if you don't particularly like being in Europe, please consider voting Remain and think of it as a "Remain for now until the Leave side put up a coherent business plan for leaving". If we leave now, we can probably never rejoin. But staying means that we still have that option in the future if things really aren't working out.

Also, if we leave now, the racists and Little Englanders will have won and it will encourage a very dark side of the British psyche.
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[User Picture]From: heleninwales
2016-06-23 10:34 am (UTC)
Oh, and if it were up to the government, it would be a resounding majority to remain. If it weren't for my Quaker and Buddhist principles, I would be soundly cursing Cameron for ever letting this referendum happen.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-23 03:45 pm (UTC)
Well the die is cast now-

And we'll know the result tomorrow.

Cameron made an irresponsible promise he didn't think he'd have to honour- and his conduct through the campaign has been shameful.

It would have been better if, like Wilson, he'd held himself above the fray.
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[User Picture]From: basefinder
2016-06-23 11:21 am (UTC)
I can't pretend to understand the nuances of the choice from over here on the other side of the pond, but the whole thing makes me uneasy and I wish you the best outcome possible, whichever way the vote goes.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-23 03:47 pm (UTC)
I think democracy (or our current version of it) is in crisis across the western world. Our referendum- like the Trump candidacy- is a symptom of deep-rooted trouble.
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[User Picture]From: artkouros
2016-06-23 12:20 pm (UTC)
Over here in Texas, the state Republican party had a fight during their recent convention over whether or not to hold a secession referendum. Many conservative Texans live under the delusion that Texas can leave the union whenever it wants, and you see a lot of "SECEDE" bumper stickers on our ubiquitous pickup trucks. I've been looking for a "SECESSION IS TREASON" bumper sticker for my truck, but no luck yet.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-23 03:51 pm (UTC)
Would Texas be viable as a nation?

I guess it's bigger than the UK- and a lot of other European countries.
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[User Picture]From: artkouros
2016-06-23 06:28 pm (UTC)
It probably would. We have oil and a reasonable tech sector. But I imagine not much would be left after the carpet bombing.
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[User Picture]From: veronica_milvus
2016-06-27 05:15 am (UTC)
Did you vote in the end? Are you happy with your decision?
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-27 09:38 am (UTC)
I voted. I was brought up to think of the vote as a hard-won privilege- not something to be lightly thrown away.

I wasn't happy with the question so how could I be happy with my answer? I was wavering up until the last minute.

And now the situation is what it is and we have to make the most of it.
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