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Tony Grist

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Disgusted Of Just Down The Road From Tunbridge Wells [Jun. 10th, 2016|10:55 am]
Tony Grist
Last night's EU Referendum broadcast on behalf of the Leavers was truly horrible- xenophobic, mendacious, cynical. Just nasty. My brain feels dirty from having watched it and my fingers feel dirty from writing about it. I believe they've lost my vote.

The campaign is nothing but a popularity contest between two lots of neo-liberals and, basically, I don't like any kind of neo-liberal- so I'm considering not voting at all. Ailz says I should show my disgust by spoiling my ballot paper.

Inside? Outside? I don't think it matters a whole lot. The EU is tottering and neo-liberalism with it. My vote goes to the incoming tide that'll sweep the whole lot away.
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Comments:
From: cmcmck
2016-06-10 05:47 pm (UTC)
Not very edifying is it?

I'm glad we've been out of the news loop for the past two weeks!
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-10 06:08 pm (UTC)
You've been well out of it.
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[User Picture]From: heleninwales
2016-06-11 10:38 am (UTC)
It matters a whole lot to Wales, so if you don't care which way you vote, please consider voting for Remain and the status quo. Here are just a couple of links about how positive it is for the poorest regions of the UK to be in the EU.

Hope this link to a map showing where EU aid goes works.

19 Things EU funding has done for Wales.

Sadly, I do not trust the Westminster government to keep up the same level of funding we have received from the EU due to being a deprived area. Why don't I trust them? I don't trust them because I'm old enough to remember what life was like in the regions prior to joining the EU. London is always having money lavished on it, the rest of the UK just suffers from cut after cut. Without the money we currently receive from the EU, Wales will just go backwards with regard to roads, education and other facilities.

Edited at 2016-06-11 10:38 am (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-11 11:33 am (UTC)
I'm wavering.

And I'll take these things into account.
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[User Picture]From: sorenr
2016-06-11 11:44 am (UTC)
I know what I would LIKE the UK to vote, and though I normally feel that referenda in other countries are none of my business, this particular referendum actually is. After all, the UK vote will have an impact on my country and myself, both as part of the EU and in terms of its influence on Danish national politics.

It's hugely important, not just for the UK but for all of Europe - both those countries inside and outside the EU.

So please, do vote. Vote as your conscience tells you, whether it be a "leave", "remain" or a spoiled ballot. Whatever the outcome will be, please have your say in it. Even if your say is an "I really don't care either way".

(I tried to make this comment neutral in terms of "leave" or "remain". If you think it is not, feel free to delete it. It's not meant as an advocacy of either vote.)
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-11 12:36 pm (UTC)
The vote isn't only about Britain. As a member of an EU country you have a perfect right to an opinion. Whatever Britain decides to do there'll be consequences for the rest of Europe. Brexit could well trigger the collapse of
the EU- and then who knows what?
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[User Picture]From: sorenr
2016-06-11 04:36 pm (UTC)
I am pretty sure a Brexit won't cause the collaps of the EU; it is facing much more important challenges than the exit of the UK, and to be honest the UK like Denmark has never been a "full" member of the EU - with all our exceptions and conditions. France or Germany might topple the EU, but the UK won't. (And Denmark wouldn't even create a tremor.)

If it happens it will be interesting to see how the negotiations play out. Denmark is currently struggling to be allowed into the EuroPol though we have our exception from the legal cooperation of the EU, and I can't see how the UK would manage to become part of that - or even part of the EEA - if they leave. They will try to, of course, but whereas Norway and Switzerland were given special deals as an incentive to lure them into the EU, there's really no reason to give a special deal to somebody who leaves.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-11 06:17 pm (UTC)
Domino effect?

I'm told Spain is on the brink of economic collapse and France is struggling too. I don't think it would take much to bring the whole edifice down.
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[User Picture]From: sorenr
2016-06-12 03:59 am (UTC)
Apart from the Front National there seems to be a consensus in France that the EU is a good thing for France - but of course the FN is sadly becoming a bigger and bigger player on the political scene, so naturally this could change.

As for Spain, I don't think they worry too much about the EU, to be honest. And the EU certainly isn't bad business for Spain, considering the various subsidies they are currently getting. The economic situation does seem dire, though, and who knows what such a prolonged depression might lead to in political terms.

In many ways I miss the Europe of my youth; there was that brief period of optimism in the late 90's after the Balkan war and before 9/11 where it seemed like everything was heading in the right direction. It wasn't perfect, but we were moving forward. Now it seems Europe is hugely challenged - and not just the EU - and it will be interesting to see how things develop during my middle age.
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[User Picture]From: davesmusictank
2016-06-11 01:34 pm (UTC)
I have tended to steer away from the whole debate. It just sickens me how xenophobic and myopic some of these people are.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-11 01:42 pm (UTC)
I find it exerts a horrid fascination- but I try to view it from outside and not become involved.
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[User Picture]From: veronica_milvus
2016-06-11 06:02 pm (UTC)
I went to hear Gordon Brown speak on Wednesday night at the Sage in Gateshead (built with EU money). He was quite inspiring.

https://leftfootforward.org/2016/06/watch-gordon-browns-brilliant-new-video-making-the-patriotic-case-for-eu-membership/
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-06-11 06:14 pm (UTC)
I was in favour of the EU for most of my life- and for much the same reasons as Gordon Brown. Now I'm not so sure.

But I'm still waiting to hear the killer argument from either side.
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[User Picture]From: veronica_milvus
2016-06-11 10:35 pm (UTC)
The original founder members of the EU have been at each others' throats for thousands of years. They are now enjoying the longest period of peace since the Roman Empire. They've joined together with other countries including three former fascist dictatorships and ten former communist countries, and they are all more or less stable democracies. Sometimes I think the EU is the only thing between 550 million people and another dose of fascism. I think it's good to be talking with all these countries about our common cause. I've been working very very hard for Remain these last few weeks. I can tell you at least that a lot of very sincere people believe that staying in will do a lot of good, and that leaving will plunge us into deep economic difficulty and an ever worse mindset of isolationism, where we can demonise everyone who is Not Like Us.

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