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Tony Grist

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Don't Tell Me There's No Evidence [Oct. 30th, 2014|09:57 am]
Tony Grist
One of the ploys of the UFO deniers is to say, "But there isn't any evidence".

Which suggests they haven't heard about the Internet- a little known and occult source of heterogenous information which is simply bursting with the stuff.

Please, Mr and Mrs UFO denier, you can argue that it's all fake but you can't say it doesn't exist because that insults my intelligence ( and, incidentally, suggests you haven't done any research whatsoever).

For example, here's an interview with a very old chap called Boyd Bushman- who was an engineer with a number of top aeorospace and weapons companies including Lockheed Martin. He also held a nifty number of US patents. Bushman was dying when he gave the interview and it's rambly and rather difficult to follow but what he's saying is that there are aliens coming and going at Area 51 and their technology is being reverse engineered there. In support of what he's saying he keeps waving photographs of UFOs and aliens at the camera.

So what do you say to that?

That the whole thing's a scam and Boyd Bushman never existed? Oh but he did. No doubt about it. Here's his obituary.

That he was perpetrating a hoax? Possible- but would a man with a reputation to trash really want to be doing that on his deathbed?

That he was the victim of a hoax himself? Well, again it's possible, that this wasn't some gullible hick. Count the patents.

And, well, I can't think of any other possibility but that he was telling the truth...

[User Picture]From: idahoswede
2014-10-30 10:18 am (UTC)
All I know is what I saw in the late night southern Indiana skies back in about 1974, along with 2 State Highway policemen, my brother (a very VERY rational MBA/accountant type) and 3 or 4 other people. We were not drunk, on drugs or even LOOKING for something, but we sure saw it anyway.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2014-10-30 10:29 am (UTC)
I believe you. I think they're here.
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[User Picture]From: basefinder
2014-10-30 11:44 pm (UTC)
I try not to dismiss ideas just because I haven't personal experience with them. We don't have that "smoking gun" of extraterrestrial visitors (at least not that the public can see), but there sure is a whopping pile of circumstantial evidence.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2014-10-31 08:53 am (UTC)
Put it this way, if someone with Bushman's credibility were to reveal new information about something relatively uncontentious we'd accept it without demur

Edited at 2014-10-31 08:54 am (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: matrixmann
2014-10-31 06:51 am (UTC)
About the Roswell thing, there's already enough known what it really is. After the war, the United States packed up a lot of stuff from what was left of Adolf's Third Reich Germany. Mainly patents, technical innovations and human capital, meaning scientists. There's a saying about German engeneering, it goes "The Germans already have solutions for problems we don't have even thought about!", and so it was.
What they took away were first plans that resembled modern airforce jets.
Are 51 was an area where such stuff was tested; unfortunately (or as they didn't calculate from dumbness that no-one would take notice of it) citizens got to see the objects when they flew around, and because of its strange shapes they were thinking little green men were coming for them. They didn't think it was something that humans could build.
As hysteria broke out about these sightings, the military and the government had no choice but to give an explanation. And it came in handy that people thought they have seen Marsians. So they prepared this thing with autopsy, the public thought the United States were investigating aliens and the whole thing about military research on a jet which can break the sound barrier fortunately was off the table...

Nevertheless about Roswell, this doesn't mean that there can be nobody else out there. The universe is far too big that there can be no other kinds of life forms. They probably only suffer the same problem as mankind (if it's intelligent life): They're too far away to make it in a lifetime to send greetings or come along personally.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2014-10-31 09:05 am (UTC)
Roswell has been so obfuscated by claim and counter-claim that I tend to put it to one side. Your version of what was going on there is entirely plausible but...

We went from the Wright Flyer to putting a man on the Moon in less than a hundred years. I have no difficulty supposing that a civilization older than ours might have cracked the problems of inter-stellar travel. Already, I think, we've understood how it could be done- in theory- by using wormholes or bending space/time.
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[User Picture]From: matrixmann
2014-10-31 10:15 am (UTC)
If they already cracked that - well, not much branch.
The only thing I can say is the general rules of physics apply to every place in the universe, meaning the rules of physics in the universe (not the rules of physics that exist on a planet). If someone already cracked that - well, one will see if anytime a satellite is crashing down and scientists say "this is none of ours".
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2014-10-31 12:12 pm (UTC)
Two things.

One: we don't fully understand the laws of physics. I'm out of my depth here but quantum mechanics allows for all sorts of weirdness.

Two: Objects keep falling out of the sky. Usually the military and the spooks take charge of them and hide them away.
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[User Picture]From: matrixmann
2014-10-31 01:24 pm (UTC)
Hm, I'm running out of arguments for a topic I don't have sound knowledge of. Admittedly.

For the last point I have to say: It will be the case, but I suppose it has gone a little more different to completely hide something from public. The reason is everywhere you find a person which cannot write his name, but can handle the camera function of his cell-phone. This makes it a little different. And media don't care about military secrets or world peace if it's about marketing of a good headline story.
That's all I can say to it.
Probabilities (for which even to happen) I leave to everyone else.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2014-10-31 03:22 pm (UTC)
Well, there are lots of pictures and videos of UFOs on the Internet. They're being added to all the time. Some are certainly fakes, but are they all?
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[User Picture]From: matrixmann
2014-10-31 06:22 pm (UTC)
Well, I only know the following: The power of pictures. Don't put too much believe in visual material that is presented to you. The same rule applies to wars.
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