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Tony Grist

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Deliberately Annoying [Nov. 24th, 2016|10:08 am]
Tony Grist
There was a report last night that Donald Trump is rethinking his stance on man-made global warming, has had a change of heart on torture and has said he wants nothing to do with the alt right. I don't think I dreamed it.

It made me think of that line of Groucho's- "These are my principles and if you don't like them...well, I have others."

I'm seeing Trump as a trickster figure,  here to stir things up, cause annoyance, rearrange the furniture...
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: puddleshark
2016-11-24 10:26 am (UTC)
I don't think I dreamed it.

Are you sure?

I dreamt he got elected and don't seem to be able to wake up...
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 10:48 am (UTC)
Strange days indeed...
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[User Picture]From: clindau
2016-11-24 12:45 pm (UTC)
I wonder how these changes of heart will play with those who believed all those campaign promises and voted for him, only to see him back-pedal. Probably not well.
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[User Picture]From: davesmusictank
2016-11-24 01:21 pm (UTC)
Outraged i guess but then they may realise that all this hate and misogyny is not the way to go.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 03:16 pm (UTC)
I believe the alt right is already fuming...
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[User Picture]From: cmcmck
2016-11-24 01:24 pm (UTC)
Trickster?

I think 'liar' and 'user' suit better.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 03:21 pm (UTC)
Lying and using are what all politicians do. I think what's happening with Trump may have a further dimension.
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[User Picture]From: cmcmck
2016-11-24 04:18 pm (UTC)
Aye! It's called populist fascism.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 04:38 pm (UTC)
Too simple.

All you've done there is stick a label on what's going on. Mussolini was a fascist, Franco was a fascist- and came to power nearly a century ago. Things have moved on. Trump may be no better than those gents- but he's not exactly the same. (To use a trivial instance they didn't have Twitter at their disposal.) He's a developing phenomenon- and keeps springing surprises.
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[User Picture]From: kamomil
2016-11-25 02:10 pm (UTC)
He's a psychopath and a narcissist
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[User Picture]From: kamomil
2016-11-25 02:12 pm (UTC)
But yes I agree that he is playing games. He played a game to get elected, and he is playing more games to stay in power. He is a frighteningly smart man.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-25 02:41 pm (UTC)
I used to think he was remarkably stupid, but the longer this goes on the more respect I have for his cleverness or cunning or whatever it is.
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[User Picture]From: howlin_wolf_66
2016-11-24 01:58 pm (UTC)
He cares about nothing so much as personal success, and he will do and say whatever it takes to achieve that...
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 03:23 pm (UTC)
Perhaps. I'm still processing the data.
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[User Picture]From: internet_sampo
2016-11-24 03:47 pm (UTC)
Boy! So many ways to respond!

1) You didn't dream the thing on global warming. He said he's open to all ideas. My response: fake news has been a mainstay in this election, even the fake news Trump puts out himself. Trump is Trump: he is a great salesman but a poor businessman. He knows what to say to make people happy. [A supporting aside: Friday Trump settled the Trump University suit for $25 million. Then his twitter account woke up and he started tweeting about his VP getting booed at a musical. Everyone was so enraged with those tweets that we ignored the fact that Trump was settling a suit. Not admitting he was wrong, but paying $25 mill to make it go away.]

2) There's been a few news reports about his supporters waking up and realizing, that if he goes through with his promises, they will not have health insurance. They seem confused. [On a side note: Trump said that he's willing to keep a few parts of Obamacare. He is either lying or stupid. The parts of Obamacare he wishes to keep (without the other parts) would bankrupt the U.S. health care system. Not Medicare and Medicade (the socialized senior citizen system and the socialized health care systems for citizens living in extreme poverty) but the private system as well.]

3) There's a difference between a con man and a Trickster. The con man is a criminal - he will steal from you and leave you wanting. The Trickster will steal from you but in the process give you something in return -- at least a new transformed understanding of the situation. The people who "attended" Trump University and the people he's stiffed for payments owed are left wanting. The only realization that they have is not new and transformed. They have always known that there were winners/losers and cheats/the cheated and now they know that they have fallen into the latter camp.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 04:25 pm (UTC)
I like your characterisation of him as a great salesman but a bad businessman. I'm going to bear that in mind.

Otherwise I've stopped trying to predict or second guess his behaviour. I used to think he was stupid, now I'm not so sure. But however things play out- and whether he acts as driving force or puppet- as trickster or conman- I believe the Trump Presidency is going to be a transformative event in American- and perhaps world- history. Just by getting himself elected he's knocked conventional wisdom on the head...
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[User Picture]From: kamomil
2016-11-26 06:29 am (UTC)
Apparently the Russians had bots commenting on social media to create instability in the US and Trump getting elected is a side result.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-26 10:02 am (UTC)
Yeah....

I've got a friend who says Putin hacked the election. I'm sceptical myself. I just don't see bots having that big an effect.
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[User Picture]From: faunhaert
2016-11-24 06:02 pm (UTC)
he basically said he had no clue
and said things just to get people upset and vote

where they were saying Hillery flip flopped
he does it on a daily basis.
She actually has a track record of integrity.

the people voted for a "republican" not the man
the party was the important thing thinking he'd do what
the party wanted- but his choices in advisors reek.
having his sone do what a government official should negotiate?

really hope the electoral college votes him out as unconstitutional.

he's a nightmare.
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-24 07:24 pm (UTC)
All politicians lie. Trump just lies more brazenly than most.

I don't think he seriously expected to win- well, none of us did, did we?
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[User Picture]From: emeraldsedai
2016-11-26 08:06 pm (UTC)
Hi. New to your journal and one of the many old LJers hanging on but not around much anymore. I happened to see your post on the "latest entries" front page.

I'm finding your idea of Trump as a Trickster illuminating and refreshing. For a couple of weeks now, I've been uneasy with my conclusion that he's an idiot. I do believe he's a psychopath, but...yes, Trickster explains an element that a psychological diagnosis alone, however apt, doesn't quite cover. Another commenter points out that the Trickster god gives something in return for tricking you, and just in the past few days I think I'm seeing that "something" begin to emerge.

I'm not quite able to articulate it yet, but it's in the realm of coalescing opposition. Not Resistance, per se, though that's certainly happening too, but realization on the "left" (whatever that is these days, and who knows?) needs to go deeper, create something smaller and newer...kind of like the little tiny mouse-like mammals who existed while dinosaurs still ruled the earth, and who, through being small and clever, knew to get out of the way when the big guys fell over.

It's a developing image... :D
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[User Picture]From: poliphilo
2016-11-27 09:47 am (UTC)
Nice to meet you.

Trump is something new. We've never been in a situation quite like this before- and we're having to rethink all sorts of things. The old political categories are no longer fit for purpose. Trump- a plutocrat who is heading up a revolt of the dispossessed- refuses to fit in any of our pigeonholes. What does he stand for? God only knows; it keeps changing.

The old parties of the so-called left have long since parted company with the people they were once supposed to represent. As you say, we need to evolve...
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